大丈夫 comes from Chinese usage, where it means 'man of character' so my guess is it acquired its Japanese usage via the implication of what a good person would do/find proper. It's actually still used sometimes in the original Chinese sense when the writer is being deliberately archaic, though it's usually read then as Masurao. Which amusingly is one of the monsters that gets sicced on you in Einhell.

I think the etymological theory on 無茶 isn't so much the absurdity of not having tea on its own (though if you've played the HHGTTG game, maybe not so absurd...) as it is not having tea when a visitor comes by. Tea is Serious Business in Japan after all and not offering a guest any or refusing it if it's offered is seen as, well, absurd. xD

Given how often I seem to run into it without expecting to (and how fundamental it is to all the Romance languages) I almost wish I'd spent some time learning a bit of Latin, if only to make looking stuff up easier and to know what the proper conjugations should be. And yay, Asterix! Such happy memories of reading those books growing up. I think I still have them somewhere too, along with Tintin.

Since language appreciation has come up, I'll toss in a couple examples of interesting yojijukugo that are going into the Falcom Glossary. They're the four-character idioms whose meanings are (generally) not apparent from their component characters so you have to know the history to appreciate them.

森羅万象: This one literally consists of words for 'Spreading Forest' and 'Ten Thousand Things', but means 'All Things in Nature', via the idea of 'all the land and all that lives (via a generic large number)'.

明鏡止水: It literally means 'Clear Mirror, Still Water' and in practice means '(Having a) Serene Mind' based on Chinese Daoist and Buddhist usage where the mind was likened to a mirror that needed to be kept clean.

天衣無縫: I was hoping Falcom would use this one to give me an excuse to stick it in the glossary because it's cool, fortunately they obliged me by making it part of a boss' title in Ys VIII. Anyhow, it means 'Perfection', 'Flawless' or 'Innocent' with component characters meaning 'heaven, garment, no stitches'. The idea being that the attire of heavenly beings shows no sign of artifice and is thus 'perfect', and that made its way into the general idea of something that's flawless or that appears spontaneous without effort.

I appreciate both the answers, and your additions. This is the sort of stuff that makes my eyes light up to discover. Tintin and Asterix. Two of the classical bande dessine. A shame I had to leave my copies behind these twenty years ago.

I fancy myself a fast/good learner in general. But when it comes to language... I stink. Problem is language is so arbitrary, there is so little logic to it for every language I've tried to learn (English as well I'm well aware). Even when they have seemingly set rules like Japanese supposedly being  phonetic as many teachers/guides/tutorials claim, it kinda isn't because normal spoken Japanese just ignores certain elements of particles or whatever the terminology is. 'Desu' is the easy example. Everyone just says 'dess', not 'desu', unless it's a whiny little anime girl or something. 'shitsureshimasu' is pronounced more like 'shtreshmass'. Then there is the whole 2 different ways of saying '4', with one way being the only proper way to say it in some contexts, and the other being the only proper way to say it in others. arghagakfldj. It makes my head explode! It's just arbitrary rule memorization times a million I swear.

That being said, it pains me how little people try to understand language when they read it. Or how they fail to acknowledge that a line can have multiple interpretations that are all correct, and people often decide to assume that the one they like the LEAST is the example they are going to run with instead of ask for clarification. One example I'm sure we're all aware of is the whole Nisa mentioning making some lines 'sound more polite in English' dung-storm. Sure you can interpret that as  'We're censoring maniacs and we are inserting SJW propaganda into our game as best we can!' (which believe me, I'd be sympathetic to, I'm an open anti-SJW myself). But hold on a second! I can also mean something like 'Laura, who is always polite, said something that is polite in Japanese, that would NOT be considered polite in English, so we had to re-arrange it so that it sounds more polite'... Of course nobody assumed that, nobody asked if that's more like what happened, they all just BASH CS3 for being a censored trashfire of a game or something like that.

Soo... I effing hate language. But at the same time I greatly respect it, and wish people put as much care into reading it as you guys do (and I try to, but I only know English =P ).

My Respect for this makes people think I talk weird, it's frustrating. For example I often have people ask me something like 'So and so failed to receive X right?'. Most people would say yes or no, and then risk a reasonable percent chance that it would be interpreted as 'yes, your question is correct', OR 'yes they DID receive 'x'' (even though that would be wrong, lots of people would take it that way). So I personally avoid answering 'yes' or 'no' in many situations, and often say 'correct', and boom, no misinterpretation is possible. I say other things differently than most people too but can't think of any examples off hand, but it comes across as me sounding weird. *fumes*.

Okay, finally have some time to toss in my own two cents.

Tu quoque, fili. I read Caesar's "Commentarii de Bello Gallico", but I can't remember ever discussing his last words in Latin classes. The debate among historians about the authenticity of these words as well as their lasting influence is pretty interesting, but from a purely linguistic standpoint this exclamation doesn't offer much.

Tu is the personal pronoun for 'you'. Notable because personal pronouns (as distinct words instead of verb conjugations) are rarely spelled out in Latin until the writer/speaker really wants to emphasize the person(s) addressed. Given the context, it fits.

quoque, just like the English '..., too' it's always used at the end of a clause.

fili is the vocative case of filius, son. The vocative is something of a pseudo-grammtical case that identifies and again emphasizes the one being addressed. Considering that it's only used to change the spelling of words in the nominative case while the words retain their former grammatical function, there isn't much else to find here.

Further Latin phrases... how about Caesar's veni, vidi, vici? Grammatically it's bland, but from a stylistic perspective, it's brilliant. It's an alliteration(the first letter of the words are the same), homeoteleuton (the ending of the words are the same), asyndeton (deliberate exclusion of conjuctions), tricolon and hendiatris(three words used to express the same idea).

And another Latin one: Carthago delenda est, though I prefer the longer and less known version among English speakers of Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delandam. Spoken by Marcus Porcius Cato the Elder, a famous Roman politician, a veteran of the second Punic War (the one with the historical Hannibal Barca) and the first notable Roman historian to write in Latin instead of Greek.

The phrase means "Carthago must be destroyed", with the longer version putting the prompt in indirect speech. What made these words famous was the fact that Cato the Elder used these words as his signature 'speech finisher'. During his later years, after a failed negotiation with Carthago post-second-Punic-War, he ended every of his senate speeches with these words, no matter the topic discussed. He could have been talking about lowering grain taxes or the corrupting influence of Greek culture on the young... no matter how unrelated, one could expect these words to be spoken like clockwork. The man ultimately got his wish, but only post mortem.

If anyone is interested in a grammatical breakdown of Cato's phrase, speak up and I'll gladly explain.

And while the Japanese have their yojijukugo, the Chinese have their chéngyǔ. Different name for the same thing so I'll start with my favorite one.

自相矛盾, often abbreviated to 矛盾. 自相 means 'each other', 矛 is 'spear', 盾 is 'shield'. The story behind this chéngyǔ is as follows - a weapons merchant was trying to sell both spears and shields. First he raised a spear and shouted across the market: These spears are the mightiest weapons money can buy. They can easily penetrate every shield there is. Shortly after, he raised a shield and shouted: Look at the superb craftsmanship of these. My shields are unbreakable. No matter the weapon, they all shatter across it's surface.

A potential customer appeared and then asked: If you use one of your spears to attack one of your shields, what's going to happen?

So yeah, the ancient Chinese version of irresistible force meets immovable object. The actual meaning is of course 'contradiction'. The Japanese language most likely knows this one, too. One of the Ace Attorney games discuss the story behind this Chinese proverb verbatim, which is fitting considering how crucial the theme of contradiction is to the whole series. It's also obliquely referenced in the original Visual Novel of Fate Stay Night, Unlimited Blade Works route. Though explaining how this one feeds into the context requires going a little in-depth about Nasuverse lore. If there are FSN fans here who are interested, speak up and I will post more.

Posted by: @wuolong77

And while the Japanese have their yojijukugo, the Chinese have their chéngyǔ. Different name for the same thing so I'll start with my favorite one.

The Japanese language most likely knows this one, too.

Yeah, a lot of the Japanese idioms come from Chinese, which makes for a bit more digging when it comes to the origins when you see them in the former language. And an interesting case exists with 風林火山 which is original to Japanese but is taken from Chinese since it's the four operative characters from a chunk of the Sunzi Bingfa (aka Sun Tzu's The Art of War). It's basically two steps removed from the original Chinese (roughly 'Swift as the Wind, Silent as the Forest, Fierce as Fire, Immovable as the Mountain) boiled down and made into a new idiom which didn't start out as a chengyu. I find that kind of neat.

And yes, there's a Japanese version of 自相矛盾 with the exact same meaning, albeit with a character swap. It's written as 自己矛盾 instead. Actually, there's a couple Japanese idioms built on the foundation of 矛盾, all meaning some form of contradiction or paradox. I think the first time I heard about the idiom was when it came up in the context of Gundam SEED and the indomitable spear that is Strike versus the unbreakable shield that is Aegis. It's a popular one and it's not hard to see why. xD

Oh yeah, given that you clearly know your Latin, how's your knowledge of Ys IX? I'm curious about the conjugation of something where I know what meaning Falcom was going for thanks to underlying kanji but I'm pretty sure its conjugation would make any Roman send the writer to the blackboard to write it properly a hundred times, Life of Brian style. I don't remember how you're supposed to do the conjugations (my last exposure to formal Lat being more years ago than I care to remember) but I'm pretty sure not everything is meant to be in the nominative case. I ask about your knowledge because the name is mildly spoilery even without context.

About the 風林火山, the romanization is Furinkazan. I think I encountered it the first time in 'Prince of Tennis' of all things, when one of the older players utilized four moves based on the four tenets. I wasn't aware though that it originates from Sunzi's Art of War. The downside of reading a translation instead of the original, but my Chinese is simply not good enough to tackle Old Chinese script.

And I wasn't aware Gundam Seed also used the 矛盾. And between the Strike and Aegis no less, which resulted in one of the most dramatic and iconic duels in the Gundam franchise. Well, the oblique reference to Fate Stay Night is also used in of those sure-piercing spear vs indestructible shield duels, though in this case the weapons clashing against each other are literally a spear and a shield. Arguably a little more on the nose compared to the Gundam Seed example.

Okay, this might be a little heretical, but I'm not a Ys fan. I have played Ys VII and it was a decent experience, but the series simply doesn't suck me in the same way as Kiseki. If you have some questions in regard to Latin conjugations, I'll gladly answer them. Spoilers about Ys doesn't concern me. My Latin is rusty mind you, but I've also learned it for six years at school. Vocabulary is crap, but grammar is ironically intact.

And finally, about the 明鏡止水. Your mention of Daoist usage piqued my interest, so I just had to do some digging. And just like the 風林火山, the origin(or one of the origins) of 明鏡止水 is found in another classic of Chinese literature, namely the 莊子(Zhuangzi), a book coined after the Chinese philosopher of the same name.

Here is the passage that refers to 明鏡. This is from a translation by Herbert Giles from the year 1889.

(From chapter VII, how to govern)

By Inaction, fame comes as the spirits of the dead come to the boy who impersonates the corpse.

By Inaction, one can become the centre of thought, the focus of responsibility, the arbiter of wisdom. Full allowance must be made for others, while remaining unmoved oneself. There must be a thorough compliance with divine principles, without any manifestation thereof.

All of which may be summed up in the one word: passivity. For the perfect man employs his mind as a mirror. It grasps nothing: it refuses nothing. It receives, but does not keep. And thus he can triumph over matter, without injury to himself.

And here's the passage that refers to 止水, same translation.

(From chapter XIII, Tao of God)

The repose of the Sage is not what the world calls repose. His repose is the result of his mental attitude. All creation could not disturb his equilibrium: hence his repose.

When water is still, it is like a mirror, reflecting the beard and the eyebrows. It gives the accuracy of the water-level, and the philosopher makes it his model. And if water thus derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind? The mind of the Sage being in repose becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.

I was pleasantly surprised by this find, because I knew of Zhuangzi from a discussion about the "Butterfly Dream" which happens to be a story found in the same book as the passages I just quoted.

Posted by: @wuolong77

Okay, this might be a little heretical, but I'm not a Ys fan. I have played Ys VII and it was a decent experience, but the series simply doesn't suck me in the same way as Kiseki. If you have some questions in regard to Latin conjugations, I'll gladly answer them. Spoilers about Ys doesn't concern me. My Latin is rusty mind you, but I've also learned it for six years at school. Vocabulary is crap, but grammar is ironically intact.

No worries, everyone's got their own tastes. And cool, let me toss this your way then and see if you can make sense of it.

And finally, about the 明鏡止水. Your mention of Daoist usage piqued my interest, so I just had to do some digging. And just like the 風林火山, the origin(or one of the origins) of 明鏡止水 is found in another classic of Chinese literature, namely the 莊子(Zhuangzi), a book coined after the Chinese philosopher of the same name.

I was pleasantly surprised by this find, because I knew of Zhuangzi from a discussion about the "Butterfly Dream" which happens to be a story found in the same book as the passages I just quoted.

Ooooh, nice find! I've got to dig up my copy some time. I did a course on classical Chinese philosophy once and it's among the few where I actually kept all my books because I figured I could always go back to them and learn something new.

Posted by: @yotaka

No worries, everyone's got their own tastes. And cool, let me toss this your way then and see if you can make sense of it.

Spoiler

Ys IX name

So there's an entity in the game whose name is officially 'Atola Nox Philius', with Japanese text indicating that the meaning is intended to be 'Black One Born of the Night'. It wasn't too hard to figure out that they meant that to be 'Atra Nox Filius' but I suspect the changed spelling was intentional since Ys does that a lot with names and they use another Latin term with correct spelling almost immediately afterwards.

Anyhow, I know that Atra is technically wrong because that's the feminine form (Ater I believe would be proper) but I haven't a clue what the conjugation and proper word order would be to make that Latin say what the underlying Japanese says it should, or something close enough to it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. xD

Okay, this one is actually kind of a hard nut to crack. I see two ways how it might work, but as you already suspected, the words can't all remain in the nominative case and in both cases, I can't adhere to the 'intended meaning' too closely.

Oh wow, that's an amazing analysis there! Thank you for that, and the Latin lesson. xD

Yus, I've certainly been cowed into silence. For the next little while, anyway 🙂

And I must echo Yotaka, thanks for the analysis and the lessons.