You've stumbled on a topic that's driven a couple of us up the wall ever since Loewe Monogatari came out. xD
Of course much later we learn that Arianrhod's immortality is linked to being an Awakener and the term seems to have been intended more symbolically, which comes up a fair bit in CS4 as Duvalie drops the term a number of times while talking about her master. I haven't had time yet to go through the full game myself (I've been spot-checking scenes from youtube videos) to see how the localization handles them.
As for being overwhelmed by anger or not, this was definitely something Falcom was thinking about since when Arianrhod tells Loewe about Kernviter, she makes a point of informing him that the sword will change him. Rather than the sword causing Loewe's emotions to be stilled, he took to rigid self-control to prevent the sword from turning him into a horrific ragemonster. This is what that line he has in SC about having long ago learned to stay his anger refers to, though you need Loewe Monogatari to be able to make the connection.
TLDR: Yes, Falcom seems to be working with both meanings of the word.
You've stumbled on a topic that's driven a couple of us up the wall ever since Loewe Monogatari came out. xD
SpoilerSC/CS4Back before CS4 revealed how and why Arianrhod became immortal, there was some speculation that the term Shura had something to do with it. She watches Loewe when he effectively accepts Campanella's offer to join Ouroboros (slaughtering a group of assassins sent after him and Joshua) and comments that it seems like another Shura has been born, then the term comes up again when she tells him about Kernviter and how accepting it will mean abandoning his humanity for the path of the Shura, by implication as she herself did.Of course much later we learn that Arianrhod's immortality is linked to being an Awakener and the term seems to have been intended more symbolically, which comes up a fair bit in CS4 as Duvalie drops the term a number of times while talking about her master. I haven't had time yet to go through the full game myself (I've been spot-checking scenes from youtube videos) to see how the localization handles them.
As for being overwhelmed by anger or not, this was definitely something Falcom was thinking about since when Arianrhod tells Loewe about Kernviter, she makes a point of informing him that the sword will change him. Rather than the sword causing Loewe's emotions to be stilled, he took to rigid self-control to prevent the sword from turning him into a horrific ragemonster. This is what that line he has in SC about having long ago learned to stay his anger refers to, though you need Loewe Monogatari to be able to make the connection.
TLDR: Yes, Falcom seems to be working with both meanings of the word.
I wonder if the stuff about Kernviter changing you applies to McBurn and Angbar. He's never seemed especially rage-filled; if anything he's almost gotten more and more chill as the games went on. He enjoys fighting, sure, but it never really seemed too malicious. Mostly. Heck, he seems down right reasonable when he gets some of his memories back! Then again, he's not exactly human, so it probably makes sense it wouldn't affect him the same.
SpoilerSameI wonder if the stuff about Kernviter changing you applies to McBurn and Angbar.
My guess is that it does not.
Now, the response about the swords not forming a pair is a bit odd because the question used the exact same phrasing that McBurn did in CS2 when he said the swords were a pair, so it might be a situation where Kondo either forgot some detail during the interview or he misinterpreted the question and thought there was an implication that the interviewer didn't actually intend. I've seen that happen in enough Brandon Sanderson interviews that I can easily understand if something similar happened here.
Oddity aside, I suspect that Angbar simply has different properties from Kernviter in the same way that Weissmann's staff (our only other confirmed Divergent Laws weapon) doesn't behave like either of the swords. If Kernviter was given to Loewe because Arianrhod and the Grandmaster agreed that he could make use of it, I expect that whatever Angbar's properties are, the Grandmaster thought the same of it and McBurn. Kondo was also asked whether McBurn and Angbar's being well-matched for each other had to do with how both come from the Outside but he RAFO'd that.
Is Zoa Gilstein basically what would have appeared at the end of CS4, if the Rivaliries hadn't ended early and Ishmelga hadn't been expelled from Valimar and trapped within the Earthen Prison?
In the normal ending, when Rean flies off they mention him breaking through the atmosphere, but is that actually breaching the barrier into the Outside?
Was there any particular reason Osborne's blade couldn't have done the same job the Millium one did in killing Argres? I know it had to be a blade forged from a soul, but does the Ishmelga blade not count as being one?
I seem to recall mention that Beryl was born in Osgilliath Basin, but after extensively stalking her in the game I saw no mention of this. If true, then I'm guessing there was a localization error somewhere, but I'm wondering how she phrases it. Like was she born, or did she originate there or something? Given that it was the site for the two Sept Terrions' final clash (I forget; is that ever confirmed by anyone?), that certainly puts an interesting spin on what she could at least be related to.
SpoilerCS4/Hajimari endingBoy, they sure don't make it ambiguous that Nielsen and the First Anguis share the same VA in English, huh? Is it as obvious in Japanese? As in, not them just doubling up, but using the same voice for both characters. I'd say that the same thing happening in English almost all but confirms that particulalry popular theory.Is Zoa Gilstein basically what would have appeared at the end of CS4, if the Rivaliries hadn't ended early and Ishmelga hadn't been expelled from Valimar and trapped within the Earthen Prison?
In the normal ending, when Rean flies off they mention him breaking through the atmosphere, but is that actually breaching the barrier into the Outside?
Was there any particular reason Osborne's blade couldn't have done the same job the Millium one did in killing Argres? I know it had to be a blade forged from a soul, but does the Ishmelga blade not count as being one?
I seem to recall mention that Beryl was born in Osgilliath Basin, but after extensively stalking her in the game I saw no mention of this. If true, then I'm guessing there was a localization error somewhere, but I'm wondering how she phrases it. Like was she born, or did she originate there or something? Given that it was the site for the two Sept Terrions' final clash (I forget; is that ever confirmed by anyone?), that certainly puts an interesting spin on what she could at least be related to.
- Yeah, they state outright that Elysion analyzed the events of the Great Twilight and determined what the complete merger of all seven Knights would have been (including if Osborne hadn't deliberately botched the final Rivalry by starting it too early) so it's pretty much the 'True Great One' that people were predicting, but with an added twist thrown in regarding its origins.
- During our Rean's conversation with the 'Rean' half of Ishmelga Rean, the latter talks about how Rean could take Zoa Gilstein and escape the 'shackles of the Goddess' just like he did including being able to travel 'Outside' Zemuria. The way that's written clearly indicates he's talking about what's now been localized as the Beyond. That said, it sounds like Normal Ending Rean actually broke through the atmosphere but was still within the bounds of Zemuria rather than in the Beyond itself.
- Kondo was asked this in an interview and the answer he gave is that since the sword is Ishmelga it's a fragment of the Great One and can't harm a Holy Beast any more than any other mortal weapon can. Basically it looks similar to the 'Milliumblade' but it's functionally different.
- How was it phrased in localization? I haven't gotten to the point yet that I can check it; it's when she shows up in the Basin in Act II.. 2, I believe.
And yeah, the Basin is where it happened. I'm not sure it's ever stated explicitly but between the appearance of it matching the Black Records' discussion of the fateful battle, multiple characters noting that something happened there, Artifacts being found there and the observation that it's equidistant from the spots where the two titans ended up... it doesn't really need to be said.
I've been unusually interested in Beryl since as soon as I finished CS1.. or 2, I forget, one of them. In any case, I did bump into her at the location in question.
Anyway, I had some questions
1: I'm at a certain 5 groups do their own dungeon simultaneously part in late CS4, one such group has Sharon in it. For some reason, I discovered by accident that she can cast analyze without any cast time whatsoever (and no the instant artes event wasn't active). I saw nothing on her that enabled instant casts, not even a silver bell, or toval-esque accessory, and no I wasn't using an instant cast order either. What gives?
playable character spoiler
3: I've obtained some costumes for characters that haven't been playable, and I'm pretty darn sure will never be playable in the entire game. What gives? How are you even supposed to wear them if you don't even get them in the character menu? Not that I want any of them, but I do prefer a certain character's 'normal' outfit over their uniform one.
4: Some accessories say Balance down (1turn). Does that mean my attacks inflict balance down for a turn? Does this count as a resistible status debuff/status ailment? or does it always land?
5: Is there no equivalent to Criminal master quartz? Did I just miss it? I don't see any good fire element MQ for artes-users. There's one that gives you cp on artes useage but err. most of my artes-users generally don't need a heavy supply of CP. I realize there is a blue-criminal now, and.. I think a black one? I forget, but I do like red as a spell nuke.
6: I remember before CS3 and 4 was out in Eigo-ville, I commented that I thought CS3's OST was better than CS4, and was told that my opinion was super common. After actually PLAYING CS4, I'm actually pretty happy with it. Is it common that people didn't like 4 because of the weird Singha hate-boner I see in every Falcom music video these days? The only track I haven't really liked (which is a singha one but I like his other ones in-game), is a certain boss track that I think played during a McBurn fight (and one other after I think)
7: I kinda doubt it, but one grip I have with this game is that many of the playable characters have only like 2 or 3 crafts, Does Hajimari keep this trend? I can understand for super guest characters, but like old class 7? Repeat guest characters like the ones in the game's intro too I kinda think 3 is a bit bare-bones... Oh wait, they only have 2. daanng =(
Anton and Ricky not really spoiler but who knows:
8:
9: I'm at the 4th of the 5 dungeon quintet thing. and I made one of the tier sigma mech orbs, they seem really good... I'm not going to totally trivialize the mech battles by having one will I?
10: Some characters, once they join your party seem to be pretty permanent instead of guest, however they still have a fixed MQ. Does Hajimari do this too? One character in particular has the gloom MQ, but they only have 2 rows, making the whole status debuff build not great. arrgh =(
That's enough for now I reckon, thanks again.
edit:
oh yeah,
CS4 late act1 spoiler
In the black workshop, we see that one room with an inactive capsule/tomb looking thing. Then shortly after when revisiting the black workshop, you run across it and comment on how mysterious it is again... Do we ever find out about it?
6: I remember before CS3 and 4 was out in Eigo-ville, I commented that I thought CS3's OST was better than CS4, and was told that my opinion was super common. After actually PLAYING CS4, I'm actually pretty happy with it. Is it common that people didn't like 4 because of the weird Singha hate-boner I see in every Falcom music video these days? The only track I haven't really liked (which is a singha one but I like his other ones in-game), is a certain boss track that I think played during a McBurn fight (and one other after I think)
I'm sure some of it is Singa hate, but I think the general consensus was that it wasn't as strong as previous entries.
7: I kinda doubt it, but one grip I have with this game is that many of the playable characters have only like 2 or 3 crafts, Does Hajimari keep this trend? I can understand for super guest characters, but like old class 7? Repeat guest characters like the ones in the game's intro too I kinda think 3 is a bit bare-bones... Oh wait, they only have 2. daanng =(
A fair few people do get some new crafts (mainly the folks who only had 2), but don't expect much for new Class 7. Some of them are practically S-Craft-tier in how awesome they're animated.
Anton and Ricky not really spoiler but who knows:
8:
Spoiler
9: I'm at the 4th of the 5 dungeon quintet thing. and I made one of the tier sigma mech orbs, they seem really good... I'm not going to totally trivialize the mech battles by having one will I?
Depends on the difficulty, but I played on hard and they were still decently challenging. The final one's a doozy, but I'd only bothered making the Attack orb.
10: Some characters, once they join your party seem to be pretty permanent instead of guest, however they still have a fixed MQ. Does Hajimari do this too? One character in particular has the gloom MQ, but they only have 2 rows, making the whole status debuff build not great. arrgh =(
As far as I recall that doesn't happen too much, if at all.
CS4 late act1 spoiler
Spoiler
Yep.
Edit: Apparently I can't properly quote spoiler tags to save my life.
1: I'm at a certain 5 groups do their own dungeon simultaneously part in late CS4, one such group has Sharon in it. For some reason, I discovered by accident that she can cast analyze without any cast time whatsoever (and no the instant artes event wasn't active). I saw nothing on her that enabled instant casts, not even a silver bell, or toval-esque accessory, and no I wasn't using an instant cast order either. What gives?
Analyze has such low Delay that it's possible to get it to instantly cast without specifically trying for it, though doing it without any Bell equipped is more unusual. For a while in Hajimari it was possible to get certain characters to cast even high-tier Arts with only a couple points of casting delay, though they slightly nerfed it with the big update.
playable character spoiler
Spoiler2: is it just me or is Duvalie kinda bad in combat
They're not bad, they just aren't great for AoE damage because their spammable Crafts are pretty weak, but they do inflict very nice status effects as long as the enemy isn't resistant and they're fast. They also work really well with Critical-based builds so if you set them up in that direction and for quicker CP gain, you'll probably find them a lot more useful.
3: I've obtained some costumes for characters that haven't been playable, and I'm pretty darn sure will never be playable in the entire game. What gives? How are you even supposed to wear them if you don't even get them in the character menu? Not that I want any of them, but I do prefer a certain character's 'normal' outfit over their uniform one.
4: Some accessories say Balance down (1turn). Does that mean my attacks inflict balance down for a turn? Does this count as a resistible status debuff/status ailment? or does it always land?
5: Is there no equivalent to Criminal master quartz? Did I just miss it? I don't see any good fire element MQ for artes-users. There's one that gives you cp on artes useage but err. most of my artes-users generally don't need a heavy supply of CP. I realize there is a blue-criminal now, and.. I think a black one? I forget, but I do like red as a spell nuke.
- I'll have to check when I'm in front of my console how those work.
- Yeah, Balance Down (1 Turn) means it'll last for a turn if it activates; I'm fairly sure it's treated the same as any other status-down effect for enemy resistance purposes.
- Virgo, Magius, Deva and Katze all grant Arts Critical but there isn't a fire-elemental one that's really great for magical damage. Hajimari adds two of them (the game has a few 'similar effects, different elements' ones added to simplify things given the enormous cast) for whatever it's worth.
10: Some characters, once they join your party seem to be pretty permanent instead of guest, however they still have a fixed MQ. Does Hajimari do this too?
For the most part no, once you have a character you can freely change all their quartz and equipment aside from a couple characters who have a locked accessory slot. There is one exception to the Master Quartz with a (very) minor mechanics spoiler:
Thanks, but just to be sure about something
1: Just to clarify, by instant, I mean uses only 1 turn, not a really fast cast so that she completed the spell before anyone else moved. I'm pretty sure 'tear' for example is no slower, and I've never seen someone manage to cast tear and only use 1 action to do so in the sense that the event timer thing only moves once instead of twice, and in the case of tear, I've even casted that with Cast3 + ocean bell equipped, and it still isn't uses only 1 action instant like say chrono burst. Oh yeah I didn't cast it during a chrono burst either =P.
Anyway almost time for me to continue my CS4ing, eek yay. Looking forward to the end, though I'm not looking forward to the wait for Hajimari (and honestly a little nervous if we'll get it at all. I'm happy NISA picked up CS3/4, but now that they've been working on it for some time, and knowing the games are so deep into the series that people complain about being a huge investment (it's what makes it great but many would-be fans get turned off by that claim), I suspect it's time to take a reality pill in that it's very possible that the sales for CS4 may not justify the work it was (and hence Hajimari)... Though Hajimari is the last game before another new arc where people can be convinced to start 'fresh' again, so maybe they'll just bite the bullet to keep good faith for the next arc? *crosses fingers* (assuming there is a presumable bullet to bite, I'd rather there not be but I dunno).
Actually, do we have any information on if CS3/cs4 is considered a commercial success for NISA? I never heard any of that kinda news.
I had a question I was hoping to ask for anyone who's experienced Hajimari. Basically I would to know everybody's opinions on the best way to classify Hajimari in regards to the series' Arcs. If no one minds me linking to it, I made a thread (here) on the Falcom subreddit with more info, and I had a few discussions there as well. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on the topic if anyone would be willing to share them.
I haven't played Haji, and I didn't read your spoiler tagged parts, so my opinion isn't more informed than other people's, but perhaps a different perspective from me will provide a choice of words you like more? or maybe not? anyway...
I too, based on my vast experience of not even playing it (Hajimari, not sky 3rd), think Hajimari is like sky 3rd, which is to say it's the bridge between the arc before, and the arc after. So sky 3rd, while not considered manditory to enjoy sky as a whole, expects you to play sky, and connects sky to crossbell, thereby expanding on sky without 'concluding' it, but with the purpose of fleshing out its base so that you can play crossbell without feeling like it made logical/story-based 'leaps' on the lore for Crossbell... Not needed to play crossbell per say, but so that sky-fans don't go 'wait, wut? SINCE WHEN!??!' as they play crossbell and see lore that is based on sky.
Hajimari is (I think), a bit different because unlike sky, cold steel ITSELF takes for granted you have knowledge of the lore prior to it (sky doesn't CUZ THERE IS NONE), but I suspect its overall purpose is the same where (and nobody knows this, not just me... cuz like, the game isn't even out yet in Japan either) you can play the future arc, and it will assume you know cold-steel based lore that isn't exactly fleshed out from cold steel 4, but IS thanks to Hajimari. Like Cold steel, i suspect the next arc will be 'playable' without playing cold steel (and sky, and zero/ao), but Hajimari serves as the bridge between the two games so that fans of the entire series don't feel like there are glaring gaps between the two series... Much like how I feel like cold steel 4 takes for granted the player knows about and accepts content in Alster with those two kids and how the entire cast seems to know them even though THEY NEVER WERE IN ANY OF THE PREVIOUS GAMES GHAGHAGH (seriously, what's up with it?). I'm seriously weirded out how they didn't do what cold steel 1->2 did with Ymir's chapter. nope, just retcons an entire town as far as I know (based on my understanding from a previous question and its answer).
The two kids from Alster first appeared in the 'Ring of Judgement' manga starring Estelle, Josh and Ein's favorite chewtoy. They were then featured again in the 2nd Cold Steel drama CD (the first was Rean's homecoming to Ymir with Class VII). This 2nd drama CD happens during the civil war when Class VII already have control over the Courageous and get a request from our favorite bard to look after the town.
As for Hajimari... I'm not sure there's a 'best' way to classify it, because the game does a lot of things at the same time and depending on what kind of fans you're talking to, it's advantageous to emphasize certain points over others. On first glance the main mystery and plot driver seem standalone though Rean's, Lloyd's and C's character stories are of course heavily dependent on the Crossbell and Cold Steel arc. Personally, now that I've finally found the time to play it again (middle of last chapter currently), I'm convinced that the main plot driver of Hajimari only seems standalone because we don't yet know what future games are going to bring.
Or in other words, I suspect that Hajimari's ultimate place in the Trails continuity is something we can only assess after the future arcs have been published.
Thanks, but just to be sure about something
1: Just to clarify, by instant, I mean uses only 1 turn, not a really fast cast so that she completed the spell before anyone else moved. I'm pretty sure 'tear' for example is no slower, and I've never seen someone manage to cast tear and only use 1 action to do so in the sense that the event timer thing only moves once instead of twice, and in the case of tear, I've even casted that with Cast3 + ocean bell equipped, and it still isn't uses only 1 action instant like say chrono burst. Oh yeah I didn't cast it during a chrono burst either =P.
Yeah, I get it and it can happen that way. Analyze is literally the fastest-casting spell that is not Chrono Burst so it's the one most likely to behave like that even when you're not really trying for it.
I suspect it's time to take a reality pill in that it's very possible that the sales for CS4 may not justify the work it was (and hence Hajimari)... Though Hajimari is the last game before another new arc where people can be convinced to start 'fresh' again, so maybe they'll just bite the bullet to keep good faith for the next arc? *crosses fingers* (assuming there is a presumable bullet to bite, I'd rather there not be but I dunno).
Actually, do we have any information on if CS3/cs4 is considered a commercial success for NISA? I never heard any of that kinda news.
Based on Falcom's 2019 statements the sales for CS3 in English seem to have been quite good and given that they sold out of the CS4 LE I suspect they did just fine there too, but I haven't heard of anything specific.
I had a question I was hoping to ask for anyone who's experienced Hajimari. Basically I would to know everybody's opinions on the best way to classify Hajimari in regards to the series' Arcs. If no one minds me linking to it, I made a thread (here) on the Falcom subreddit with more info, and I had a few discussions there as well. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on the topic if anyone would be willing to share them.
Given that the game builds on plot threads from the Crossbell and Erebonia arcs (and to a much lesser extent, Liberl) you can't really group it with any one past arc. It's probably a bit more heavily weighted to Crossbell but it's got way too much cross-pollination from Erebonia to be thought of as merely 'Crossbell 3'. You could also think of it as 'Calvard 0.2' (to borrow some KH-speak) since it's rather blatantly setting things up for that arc, but since it doesn't actually take place there it's not really a Calvard Arc game.
It's basically its own thing, standing right on the line between arcs without neatly fitting into one of them. Falcom's own Kiseki series page has five groupings, one for each of the three arcs, one for Hajimari and one listed as 'Under Investigation' representing the next arc. Okay, technically they split Erebonia into two sections but it's still clear that they classify Hajimari as something separate.
Much like how I feel like cold steel 4 takes for granted the player knows about and accepts content in Alster with those two kids and how the entire cast seems to know them even though THEY NEVER WERE IN ANY OF THE PREVIOUS GAMES GHAGHAGH (seriously, what's up with it?). I'm seriously weirded out how they didn't do what cold steel 1->2 did with Ymir's chapter. nope, just retcons an entire town as far as I know (based on my understanding from a previous question and its answer).
As mentioned, they and the town have been heavily built up, just not in the games themselves. Just as Falcom implicitly assumes certain knowledge of past games, they assume a similar degree of knowledge about secondary sources. Alster is the (unnamed) setting of Ring of Judgment, it then gets named and the events of the manga referred back to in the CS2 drama cd and that game indirectly hints at it when Toval talks about Estelle and Joshua. You can get the translated manga here and an English transcription of the drama cd (along with the one from CS1 involving Ymir) here.
Another minor example of this would be when McBurn brings up Kernviter in CS2. In English they tweaked the line to refer directly to Loewe but in Japanese he doesn't get named and is only referred to as 'that departed fool'. It's left to the player to either figure out that McBurn is talking about Loewe or, more likely, remember from Alternative Saga and/or Loewe Monogatari that his sword was named that.
